DISCUSSION FORUM

James, I believe there is little to no difference between taking responsibility for past injustices, and only taking "moral" responsibility, as you use the term. I believe you are mincing words, and I don't know why.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge that the stage was set long for your place in the strata of society, your educational expectations, your current work ethic and success (despite Katrina's claims that the family fortune was "squandered long ago.")

Lastly, you want to encourage others to redress their feelings about racial injustice. Well, without more concrete recommendations, what is the point of your project? Thanks for insight.

Angie, thanks for sticking with this conversation.

On your first point, you seem to have misread my comment. I wasn't distinguishing "responsibility" and "moral responsibility."

I wrote that "I believe that there's a difference between assuming responsibility for the actions of one's ancestors ... and taking moral responsibility for injustice in one's own society" (emphasis added). I further explained that I was referring to addressing "lingering injustices in our own society ... regardless of whether or not we caused the harm."

Do my remarks make more sense now?

You also write:



This sounds remarkably like the arguments I make about inherited privilege, Angie.

For instance, I often say that despite the fact that I didn't grow up with money or social standing, my educational expectations were very much shaped by privilege. Specifically, I was raised by parents who were well-educated. Their example suggested possibilities without their ever having to say a word. We also know from research that parents who are well-educated tend to have habits which affect the educational prospects of their children.

The same sort of argument would apply to those with inherited money, or with high social standing. This doesn't mean that people can't rise above, or sink below, the opportunities made available to them. But I think it does mean that the opportunities available to people, and the difficulty of attaining them, varies greatly with what their parents can pass down to them.

Finally, you write:



Angie, you seem to be writing specifically to me, so I'll respond for myself. I don't seek to encourage others to address their feelings about racial injustice. I've learned that there are people in our society who have strong feelings about racial justice, and I'm sure it's important for them to work through those feelings, but it's no part of my mission.

As for concrete recommendations related to this project, I seek to encourage education above all else. Too many Americans are unaware of facts, both historical and contemporary, which are critical to understanding our society today. I also believe that it's important, given those facts, that we acknowledge our past and discuss its relationship to the present. If that's not concrete enough without details to flesh out those sentences, please let me know; I'm trying hard not to be a broken record online these days.

James,
thanks for re-iterating, and I apologize that I did not quickly make my point, which is an argument for free will. I am most definitely against forced reparations. Should I decide to act, moved by experience or persuasion, I hope it will be my decision alone.

The film and book have begun anew a conversation about Blacks in US history, a conversation obviously different and perhaps much more significant than ones from the past. I think that your responsible position could easily be mis-used. Your film becomes a solid icon upon which visions of the future are naturally manifested, for some people though, it will be for merely political purposes.

My much-loved sister-in-law arrived here two decades ago an illegal Hispanic immigrant. I have a son whose significant other is Black. I was married to an Asian male for some time. However, I raise my children without ever referring to between us. When they're older, yes, I'll make certain they know history as well as they should. But for now, I feel it's so much more important to feel that we all belong to each other. We are all vested in the same world. I feel I am working toward a different world daily. Let no one tell me I MUST participate in reparations though. Thanks for your forum.

Let me correct the previous post. I meant to write:

I raise my children without ever referring to differences (between races)

First, I appreciate the documentation of slavery in the American North. So many try and villainize the American South for all things slavery, when the vast majority of slaves didn't even land in America nor were the greatest share of slaves transported by Americans.

Next, I think I see what Angie is saying. In my opinion this film inappropriately wants to make political statements. Advocating reparations and endorsing Obama, particularly the timing with the election, are examples of the less than covert communications typical of what I will call a liberal viewpoint. It seems to all but come out say, "If you're white and you feel guilty, then atone at the altar of the voting booth."

The premise that our white well-being rests solely or in majority with the fact of slavery is too much in that it ignores ingenuity, investment, and effort from everyone. I could easily argue that the acquiring of property through the decimation of Native peoples is the source of our wealth, but in the end people fall into the vicious circle of claiming to be the greatest victim hoping to receive some form of compensation or preferred status. Has a civilization ever formed from some power or majority not trampling on the rights of the minority? How can national achievement not come from the unfair forcing of populations to comply with those in power?

One must ask that if slavery were a superior input into the development of America, then why didn't it survive? It wasn't the sudden acquisition of a new form of progressive ethics, rather it was the economic model of free labor and technological investment that won the day.

Also, the film seems to offer us the belief that only by dredging up the past can we move forward. I read many comments where many were still angry. At what? Living in a land that is near the top in terms of income and effective in healthcare, housing, availability of food, government funded education, clean water, human rights, etc? I believe it was Muhammad Ali who said that he was glad that his ancestors made that boat ride to America.

The marketing of your film also raises issues of self-interest that can appear to sully the full impact of your experience. If I conducted genealogy research complete with film, web and other media contact points complete with fee-based distribution, then what message am I sending? Could we view it as a paid vacation?

Lastly, if I look at the CV of the persons involved in this film, it reads like the typical social justice-oriented rank and file. Despite how well-meaning, it comes across as a group who wants to advertise that, "We just care more than you." I know I sound like a grumpy old man, but the world is complex, and that's just another way of seeing this. Still, this was a very interesting topic that you have pushed into the light.

I never cease to be amazed that such self indulgent northeast Harvard type rich liberals are always so eager to tell us people who actually live in the real world how we should feel guilty and of course, pay for what they deem worthy causes. Who cares what their ancestors did? As Harvard graduates I am amazed at their ignorance of history. At one point someone in all our distant ancestry were slaves. The Romans had Greek, Germanic and Britans as slaves among others. Most of the Africans were sold by other Africans or Arabs and were already enslaved by other tribes. Some blacks that came to America were never slaves, such as the whalers from the Cape Verde Islands. One of the first settlers in Maryland was a free black. I was raised in extreme poverty because my father was killed by an illegal Mexican crossing the border. Do I hold the Mexican nation or even his immediate family as guilty or want reparations? No. Stop whining. The real world is tough for the vast majority of people who don't have the luxury of contemplating their navels. Why don't you investigate the fact that slavery still exists in the world and that it is alive and well in Africa. I have had personal knowledge of young girls sold by their parents to work as unpaid domestics for other Africans living here. I have also known Kenyans and Nigerians who have tried very hard to come to this country and once here have prospered and sent money home to help their families. One thing for sure, this effete group of whiners aren't going to pay for any reparations out of their pockets. That is up to the rest of us who never took part in their ancestors 'sins' or profits and whose ancestors were certainly not greeted with open arms by their ancestors either. I know some of mine were child laborers in mills working six day weeks for twelve hour days. Now with the example of the new president and his wife it is proof that luck, character and hard work are what count not what your ancestors did or didn't do.

I'd like to clarify that no one in the film urges anyone to "feel guilty" or to pay for any cause, worthy or otherwise. There are DeWolf descendants in the film who express personal feelings of guilt, and those who do not; no one suggests that anyone ought to feel guilt for the actions of others. Likewise, the subject of reparations is raised in the film, and arguments for and against are briefly mentioned, but none of us concludes that ordinary Americans ought to pay reparations.

As for your history lesson, Guest, you raise important points. Slavery has been widespread in human history; African societies were active participants in the transatlantic slave trade; and there are many other stories of extreme hardship in our nation's past.

However, you skip over one key historical lesson: that the legacy of American slavery is alive and well today. The sins of the past can, at least in this case, be traced to ongoing harm to millions of black citizens, while all Americans are enjoying the fruits of that past. This isn't an abstract discussion of slavery in the ancient world. Many of our cherished national institutions today were deeply complicit in slavery, and the profound inequality between whites and blacks today can be largely traced back to these events. In short, you and I may not have done anything wrong, but we do benefit from the fact that slavery was practiced.

Should something be done about this fact? If so, what is the appropriate response? To acknowledge the history and move on? To do something about lingering social attitudes? About the material harm?

These are questions raised in Traces of the Trade, and the answers are left to the viewers to decide for themselves.

I viewed the abridged film last evening in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I have studied aspects of slavery and its history. The film alerted me to how little I actually understood about the role that northern business people played in the trade. I also heard in class lecture that actually 20 million Africans were taken out of Africa and 5 million died on the passage. The film used 11 million as taken out of Africa and 1.5 million who died during the passage. I am sure the number used in the film is more accurate. It was also a real pleasure to meet Katrina and chat with her. She is such a gracious and unpretentious person. I would loved to have talked with her longer. I think evil lurks in the minds of many so called great men. Our presidents had slaves and we look upon Washington, Jefferson, and Jackson as great presidents. Evil can be perpetuated in thinking that it is ok, because it has been done this way and should continue. It takes courage to realize that evil should not continue and to stop it. The Marquis de Lafayette, French general, visited Washington soon after his presidency and urged Washington to free the slaves, stating that it would inspire the free world in uplifting the virtues of democracy. However, Martha Washington and her brothers would have nothing to do with the idea. Martha was adamant about keeping slavery intact. She sent out two search parties when one of her female slaves escaped. I believe the film helps in the healing process in realizing what was thought to be ok at one time in our history was actually so very evil. We can't change the past, but we must realize that the past is not dead. As a matter of fact it is not past.

I grew up in an affluent middle-class white environment where there were very few blacks. The anguish that we went through growing up was unreal. We were targeted with racial slurs that made our lives torture growing up and unable to cope with day to day life outside our home. Despite this, our family endured and all of us kids financially did well and emotionally stable.

one of the reasons why this film is good is because it acknowledges that slavery ended but us blacks are still suffering the consequences today. Still being abused by these people, not physically but mentally. If i didn't have such great strong parents, the overwhelming despair and feelings of hopelessness would have prevented me from functioning as a productive member of society.. And then I would have been judged as one of those lazy welfare blacks.....

If things were in the past, then I wouldn't have had such mental agony growing up. I would have been treated as an EQUAL.

It takes lots of guts to acknowledge the wrongs of forefathers. By doing this documentary, the De Wolf family has shown lots of courage!!

En cuanto a los asuntos de disculpas y reparaciones, mi posición es que la oportunidad para hacerlo creíble, fue volado hace mucho tiempo. Estas cosas deben hacerse mientras los directamente implicados siguen vivos, como cuando Reagan pidió disculpas a los japoneses-americanos que habían sido enviados a campos de concentración, o cuando Clinton cada uno de ellos pagó 20.000 dólares (una suma insignificante, si me preguntan).

Si el DeWolfs son culpables, que es inocente? ¿Y por qué detenerse en cuestiones de la esclavitud? En caso de cada Judio ser culpado por la crucifixión de Jesús de Nazaret? En caso de todos los alemanes viva cien años a partir de ahora ser mezclado con los nacional-socialistas? ¿Y qué acerca de los musulmanes en post-9/11America?

[Here is a rough translation of this post:]

"Regarding the issues of apologies and reparations, my position is that the opportunity to do so credibly, was lost long ago. These things must be done while those directly involved are still alive, as when Reagan apologized to Japanese Americans who were sent to concentration camps, or when Clinton each paid $ 20,000 (a paltry sum, if you ask me).

If the DeWolfs are guilty, who is innocent? Why dwell on issues of slavery? Is every Jew to be blamed for the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth? Should all Germans living a hundred years from now be mixed in with the National Socialists? And what about Muslims in post-9/11 America?"